Tuesday, November 21, 2006
Posted by:
Kevin McCullough
at
1:15 PM
...get arrested.
Of course they're indignant, outraged, humiliated, disrespected... blah, blah, blah...
Are we supposed to believe that if six obviously muslim men got on a plane, all faced the same direction at an organized time and began chanting, or muttering things we didn't understand - that in THIS DAY AND AGE - we wouldn't have wanted them off the plane too?
Of course here comes the Anti-American CAIR to champion the issue for the six chanting mutterers whose doctrine calls for them to sever our heads from our bodies:
"CAIR will be filing a complaint with relevant authorities in the morning over the treatment of the imams to determine whether the incident was caused by anti-Muslim hysteria by the passengers and/or the airline crew," Hooper said. "Because, unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslims at airports, and it's one that we've been addressing for some time."
And now they're whining about the airline not allowing them to fly together on a flight back home...
Sorry bud, fly seperately. Rent a car and drive. Say your "prayers" before you get on the plane, but a word to the wise here - standing and doing the six united muttering thing will leave everyone a bit jumpy, and rather jihad-phobic.
See?
Don't ask, don't tell...
Mr. McCullough, if this had happened to white Christians, who were asked to leave the plane because of their practices, what would be your reaction? Because that's exactly what happened here.
Mr. McCullough, they weren't calling on the faithful to massacre the passengers on the plane, they were PRAYING. In the Muslim religion, the devout pray five times a day, including once at sundown, which was when the flight was.
Let me give a different example. As I understand it, the Christian religion calls Sunday a day of rest, so a devout Christian will not work on a Sunday. Now suppose that a Christian's boss tells him to work on Sunday, and says if he doesn't, he'll be fired. Now, if I'm not mistaken, you would be all over that, citing freedom of religion and freedom of worship. But when Muslims are treated in a similar manner, you approve.
True, if it were me, I would have tried to book an overnight flight, after the last prayer of the day, but maybe that wasn't an option for them. "Rent a car and drive." From Minneapolis to Phoenix? Great way to see the country, lousy way to get back to work on time. "Say your "prayers" before you get on the plane". Not an option for devout Muslims. And what's with the quotation marks? "fly seperately". Sorry, would you ask evangelicals to do that? Frankly, a group of them would make me more nervous than a group of imams.
Are you suggesting we should go back to segregation? That's what it is when you assign people "different" rights based on religion. What's next, separate water fountains for Muslms and Christians?
"standing and doing the six united muttering thing will leave everyone a bit jumpy, and rather jihad-phobic" Yes, that behavior does tap into people's fears, and maybe rightly so, to a point. But radical Islam isn't the only reason for that. Another reason for their fear is that they listen to snake oil salesmen like yourself who use stories like this to crank up the invective and sell more books.
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I have to admit, now that I think about it a little more, this incident does seem a little suspicious. I can't help wondering if the imams did what they did on purpose, to force the issue into the spotlight. They get on the plane and pray, security hauls them off, they protest, and there you go, a nice high-profile civil rights case, and a chance to fight in court what Muslims have been enduring for the past five years. If so, more power to them. |
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Maybe they were just "testing" to see how much you could get away with before security would react so that when they are ready to blow up a plane or crash it into some building or an atomic energy plant, they would know just how to avoid arousing TOO much attention. |
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The Quran dictates that prayer must be held at specific times five times a day. It is one of the five tenents of Islam (Salat) and it must be followed at all times.
While it is true that they are given some leeway, this is only to be used if there is no other option and I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to practice their religion in the air. KMC is nothing but a hateful bigot, you are tarring all American Muslims with the same brush, alienating the very people you need to get on your side. |
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Here's another reason, I guess. I pray a lot. Most truly born-again Christians make prayer a part of their daily lives. Sometimes I pray while sitting at my desk working on something. I doubt anybody notices because I don't do it aloud and I don't wave my arms around. It's just a conversation between me and God, not for my fellow humans to observe.
I'm thinking most Christians pray on airplanes a lot. I've seen atheists on really rough flights take up the practice. The thing is, Christians pray, but we don't do it before people. God lives within our hearts, not in Mecca, so our prayers can be silent and private. Nobody objects to prayers that don't frighten others. And, since Christians do not have a history of blowing up airplanes, nobody thinks we're dangerous.
I think the imans have been living under a rock for some time if they didn't know that loud, public, ritualist prayer by six Muslim men ON AN AIRPLANE wasn't going to give the other passengers PTSD flashbacks. Whether they were shilling for CAIR or just testing to see how much obnoxious behavior the airline would put up with, they were likely fully aware of what they were doing. And, yeah, I think security did exactly what it should have done. Since very few people speak Arabic, how is security to know that they're saying prayers or giving orders for the takeover of the airplane? |
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how loud they actually were? They were standing, so they were definitely calling attention to themselves (which makes me think they were doing it to make a point). Were they talking loudly, normally, whispering? Does the Koran allow you to pray silently, without prostrating yourself? Some Muslims undoubtedly do, but what do the Koran and other religious writings say? Because the devout will follow it to the letter. |
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I check out each flight. If I say six imams, making and calling attention to thier WORSHIP I would get off the plane or not get on at all. Christians pray but do not call attention to themselves.
Bible warns against showy prayers
"standing and doing the six united muttering thing will leave everyone a bit jumpy, and rather jihad-phobic" Yes, that behavior does tap into people's fears, and maybe rightly so, to a point.
Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists were muslims
They have leaders wanting them to kill and I frankly take that very seriously.
If they do not want to be treated the way ther were, they NEED TO FIT IN TO our society. Not us fit into theirs. |
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"If they do not want to be treated the way ther were, they NEED TO FIT IN TO our society"
So, they can be Muslim, they just can't act Muslim. |
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Sorry if I seem to be dominating the conversation.
The article that Mr. McCullough references says that the imams were praying on the plane. According to ABC News, they were in the boarding area. I believe ABC News, since their report was later, and it makes more sense. (Just try prostrating yourself in those narrow aisles).
This new info puts a new light on the incident. They were in a corner of the gate area, not intentionally bothering anyone or getting in anyone's way. They may have been loud, so are devout Jews when they pray (I think; someone correct me if I'm wrong). These men had no weapons and made no threats. The only reason they were pulled off the plane is that they were Muslim. Some people were scared, I understand that, but what US Airways should have done was question the men, maybe search their luggage with permission, but let them go on their way. They didn't fit the profile of hijackers/terrorists, who are usually Muslim and YOUNG. These guys were not young. Hauling them off in handcuffs was going way too far.
I know people are scared of the unfamiliar, especially the unfamiliar that they associate with terrorism, but that's no excuse for discrimination. That's not what this country's about. If that's changed, I don't want to live here anymore. |
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Yeah, Frey, it was just sheer fluke that the Imam leading the group was found to have ties to Hamaz and Al Qaida. And I'd be willing to bet that this is about the 105th time since the year 2000 that you've vowed to flee America if it keeps moving into the Fascist realm of...gasp...profiling (common-sense law enforcement).
If this country was as fond of true Fascism and its attendant racial/religious/political purging as you say it is, you can bet your whole life that you yourself would be sitting in some slave- or death- camp, rather than in front of a computer, publicly voicing any opinion you please. |
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"They should merge into our society. Everyone else that's come to America has assimilated into the American culture."
Did the Irish? St. Patrick's Day is celebrated all over the country, and there's nothing American about it. |
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"With mooslums it's easy. There are only two choices. Be mooslum or be dead."
True of some Muslims, yes, but not all. Saying that all Muslims are the same is like saying all Christians are the same, or all blacks are the same. Do you believe that, too? |
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"If this country was as fond of true Fascism and its attendant racial/religious/political purging as you say it is, you can bet your whole life that you yourself would be sitting in some slave- or death- camp, rather than in front of a computer, publicly voicing any opinion you please."
Of course I wouldn't be in a camp, I'm white, male, and hetero. And I never said anything about Fascism or slave camps. The word I used was "discrimination", something this country (and all others, to be fair; in fact, most of the others were worse than us) has a long and sorry history of. I'd hoped that we were getting past it in this country, but it would seem we've still got a long way to go.
You see, I'm white, male, hetero, well-educated. I'm about as non-minority as it gets. But that doesn't mean that I think this is a white, male, hetero country, as people on this site seem to think. We have a wide variety of people and that variety is one of the things that makes this country the shining example to the world it is today.
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Aside from the fact that ALL passagers must remain seated with their seatbelts fastened during taxi, takeoffs and landings, regardless of their religious beliefs, and during the last 30 minutes of flight no one is allowed to congregate in the aisles, which pretty much means they were not being single out for being Muslim, but for not obeying rules of travel, how would they be able to face Mecca when the plane was zig-zagging its way through the taxiways anyhow? |
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They don't hold St. Patty day parades on airplanes five times every friggin' day. They have to apply for permits and can only parade over a predetermined route. Pick another analogy will ya? |
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Tolerance and acceptance of other cultures is a good thing, but not when it's over the top. I've seen Muslims praying. They aren't quiet about it. Made me think of the Pharisee and the publican from one of Jesus' parables. Jesus was on the side of the self-effacing, quiet publican (social-outcast tax-collector), not the showy Pharisee. It had more to do with heart, but I think the heart informs the actions. There's a "look at me, I'm God's man" quality to showy public prayers that I really don't care for. I guess Jesus didn't either.
Fact is, they were forcing the issue. So it was in the boarding area rather than on the plane. Better, but still provocative given the location. Apparently, they were bothering someone because security was alerted. I'm not really in agreement with McCollough on a lot, but on this, he's right -- the in unison bowing and muttering thing is not appropriate in an airport, not since 911. Doesn't matter who is doing it or for what reasons.
As for the shot at St. Patrick's Day parades -- puh-leeze! I put candies in my kids' shoes on St. Lucia's Day. That doesn't mean I haven't assimilated into American culture, but that I have retained a part of my grandparents' Swedish culture within my American culture. St. Patrick's Day isn't just for Irish immigrants anymore, by the way. My father the Swede loved green beer as much as any Irishman.
Here's an interesting thought. If Islamic prayers must be done at certain prescribed times, do the terrorists stop to do the bowing to Mecca and muttering in Arabic thing during a fire-fight with American troops in Fallujah? I don't think they do. I think they hold it for a more appropriate time. Just a thought! |
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These Imams are a bunch of winning cry baby's. They were questioned BIG DEAL no harm was done to them. The airport security, flight attendents and pilots did excatly as they should! The first responciblty is the saftey of the passengers. The Imams should be complementing the effort to make sure that no terrorists get aboard their flights. The attempt by many to portray this as profiling is nonsense! What occured was good old fashioned common sense! |
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