Townhall.com::Blog

SoldierOfTruth1 writes:	Thursday, May, 10, 2007 11:33 PM
Brigham Young Quotes In Context
Gabby quotes Brigham thus : "The birth of the Savior was as natural as the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 115)." Why is this heresy? In this day and age of in vitro fertilization this should surprise no one. Yes, Mormons believe that God, the Father, was the literal Father of Jesus Christ - just as Jesus himself attested to. If not He would have had no power to lay down His life and take it again. This would make Mormon's even more Christian then their orthodox contemporaries. Gabby, are you telling me that "orthodox christianity" does not believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God? That is heresy! Gabby quotes: "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266). Now let us look at Brigham's remark in context: "It is not through lust that men and women are to practise this doctrine, but it is to be observed upon righteous principles; and, if men and women would pay attention to those instructions, I would promise, in the name of the Lord, that you would never find them lustful in their dispositions, and you might watch them as closely as you pleased. Plurality of wives is not designed to afflict you nor me, but is purposed for our exaltation in the kingdoms of God. If any man had asked me what was my choice when Joseph revealed that doctrine, provided that it would not diminish my glory, I would have said, "Let me have but one wife;" not because it is not a great comfort to me to have children, but if I have not children I know them not. Some of these my brethren know what my feelings were at the time Joseph revealed the doctrine; I was not desirous of shrinking from any duty, nor of failing in the least to do as I was commanded, but it was the first time in my life that I had desired the grave, and I could hardly get over it for a long time. And when I saw a funeral, I felt to envy the corpse its situation, and to regret that I was not in the coffin, knowing the toil and labor that my body would have to undergo; and I have had to examine myself, from that day to this, and watch my faith, and carefully meditate, lest I should be found desiring the grave more than I ought to do. You will probably wonder at this, and that such should have been my feelings upon this point, but they were even so. Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned; and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given, and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned." So Brigham's point was that we are to follow any revelation given from God or be damned. End of discussion. Will you deny that God has not commanded Polygamy from time to time. Reading the Old Testament shows that Abraham was justified in this, as was Isaac and Jacob. David said that God gave him his many wives up until such time as he began to take "strange wives". All of this was ordained of God then and has been any time God has wished to raise up righteous seed unto himself. Do you know the mind of God? Gabby quotes Brigham thus: Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269). Again in Context: Now, we as Christians desire to be saved in the kingdom of God. We desire to attain to the possession of all the blessings there are for the most faithful man or people that ever lived upon the face of the earth, even him who is said to be the father of the faithful, Abraham of old. We wish to obtain all that father Abraham obtained. I wish here to say to the Elders of Israel, and to all the members of this Church and kingdom, that it is in the hearts of many of them to wish that the doctrine of polygamy was not taught and practiced by us. It may be hard for many, and especially for the ladies, yet it is no harder for them than it is for the gentlemen. It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained. This is as true as that God lives. You who wish that there were no such thing in existence, if you have in your hearts to say: "We will pass along in the Church without obeying or submitting to it in our faith or believing this order, because, for aught that we know, this community may be broken up yet, and we may have lucrative offices offered to us; we will not, therefore, be polygamists lest we should fail in obtaining some earthly honor, character and office, etc,"—the man that has that in his heart, and will continue to persist in pursuing that policy, will come short of dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son, in celestial glory. The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them." So again we see in the broader context that Brigham was saying that if this principle was not accepted ("in faith" does not mean "in practice") whether by living it or in faith that it was a revealed principle of God man could not become the heirs of all that the Father Hath (Romans 8:16) Furthermore, little known to most non-members and members of the church alike is that the order of plural marriage was a calling to certain of the brethren (less than 5% of the church) and could not be entered into unless called of God by the prophet to do so. Any man wanting another wife was not able to just marry another and the first wife had to approve and often chose the other wives. As for men becoming gods (little g) I would again recommend Romans 8:16-18 and again I ask you the meaning of the word heir and joint-heir? What happens to the heir or joint-heir of a King? (Answer: they someday become King). And Jesus said, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture can not be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:34-36) Putting things in context makes a difference in meaning. Of course Gabby may not have done this intentionally as he/she just gets the information from anti-mormon web sites. I, however, have a full set of the Journal of Discourses and am only too happy to oblige putting them in context for the readers. Again, Gabby, do you know the mind of God? Gabby quotes Brigham thus: "...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289)." Let's see it in context: "Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the veil in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true. I will now tell you something that ought to comfort every man and woman on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith, junior, will again be on this earth dictating plans and calling forth his brethren to be baptized for the very characters who wish this was not so, in order to bring them into a kingdom to enjoy, perhaps, the presence of angels or the spirits of good men, if they cannot endure the presence of the Father and the Son; and he will never cease his operations, under the directions of the Son of God, until the last ones of the children of men are saved that can be, from Adam till now." Could this be because Joseph does hold the keys of the last dispensation and no one will be saved unless they accept the word that God, the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ revealed to him. If he was indeed a prophet of God (and I with all my heart know that he was) then he is acting in the office to which God appointed him and people will have to accept the restored and true gospel of Jesus Christ before they can be saved. For if one will not receive the word of Christ – how can they be saved. Now you may say this is blasphemy but you “orthodox Christians” say the same of your creeds and affirmations. Gabby Quotes Brigham thus: "I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 51). Was Jesus Christ the Son of the Holy Ghost or was He the Son of God the Father? Who did Jesus claim to be His Father? Was it not God, the Father? The Scripture says that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and she conceived. I think I explained this above but in case you missed it the Holy Ghost carried the seed of the Father and was no more the father of Jesus than is a doctor implanting the seed of another in the uterus of a woman. You could say, I suppose, that the woman is with child by the doctor since he implanted the seed. In the same way you could say that Mary was with child by the Holy Ghost, who (according to the Bible) implanted the seed. But this fact makes neither one the genetic father. Call it heresy all you want but the Bible supports my words. Gabby quotes Brigham thus: "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)" Now in context: “I am no abolitionist, neither am I a pro-slavery man; I hate some of their principles and especially some of their conduct, as I do the gates of hell. The Southerners make the negroes, and the Northerners worship them; this is all the difference between slaveholders and abolitionists. I would like the President of the United States and all the world to hear this. Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. The nations of the earth have transgressed every law that God has given, they have changed the ordinances and broken every covenant made with the fathers, and they are like a hungry man that dreameth that he eateth, and he awaketh and behold he is empty.” This was a law given of old to the children of Israel and is the reason that Isaac forbade Jacob to take a wife of Canaan. Joshua was commanded to go into Canaan and slaughter every man, woman and child (see Book of Joshua). Perhaps that is where Brigham got this evil idea. Or then it could be that he was God’s prophet on earth at the time and the same was revealed to him as was revealed to the prophets of old. Brigham was merely talking about laws of God which men had transgressed. This being one of them. Men, even today, find it extremely difficult to obey the laws of God. Again, are you sure that you know the mind of God? Maybe you better read Isaiah 55:8,9. I sure don’t pretend to know the mind of God except for those things which he revealed. Have you ever wondered how Canaan got its name? Maybe from the mark that God placed upon Cain after he slew his brother Able. As for your verses from LDS scripture, the word dark has always been used to describe those who follow Satan (has nothing to do with race in that respect – “Come to the dark side, Luke,” says Darth Vader. Was George Lucas being racist? Give me a break). Your Mark Twain (that you revere so highly) was more racist than Brigham Young. I have never read anything where Brigham flung around the “n word” like your beloved Samuel Clemens. Also, white and delightsome has always been used to describe the people of the Covenant. White has always been synonymous with purity. Also, taking the time period in which Brigham lived (as already pointed out by your Mark Twain) he was actually more politically correct for his time than any other. Why don’t you read this last sermon of Brigham Young’s in it’s entirety. You may come back with a totally different view. Last of all, we could argue religion all day and give you quote for quote and scripture for scripture but what I know, I know not of myself but by personal revelation from He that Redeems me and the Holy Spirit. This, being the last days, the faithful are given witness by revelation, dreams and visions (Joel 2:28 & Acts 2:17) and also through the prophets (Amos 3:7; Ephesians 2:20; Ephesians 4:11,12). This according to the Bible is one of the many marks of the True Church. Gabby this response has been quite enjoyable and only reconfirmed to me how Satan works against God’s kingdom on earth. Keeping throwing out those Journal of Discourses quotes. I love putting them in context and showing the deception of the Evil One to steer men away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ in all of its restored glory and in the very form and spirit as He established it in His day. There is no difference! Of this I testify!
Email It \| Print It \| Flag as Offensive