Friday, January 05, 2007
Posted by:
Kevin McCullough
at
2:18 PM
If you plan to stop in to the CNN Time Warner Center in Columbus Circle on your next trip to Manhattan, you might want to think twice.
Especially if you're tempted to work out.
These janitors have every right to be offended, disgusted, and reimbursed for the pain and suffering such filth caused them to encounter.
"Equinox officials called the charges 'frivolous' and deemed unfounded by separate investigation by federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration.
'It's just not an issue here at Equinox,' said the chain's Chief Operating Officer Scott Rosen."
Of course the charges are "frivolous" and "not an issue." You must remember that, in the world of political correctness, terms like "normal" and "common sense" have been redefined to mean their polar opposites. Hence, those who are clinically normal and who complain about such behavior are not to be listened to.
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CLINICALLY NORMAL!
That's rich... |
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I'll thank you conservatives to stick to your principles and recognize a free market solution when it hits you in the face. If the janitors don't want to work at a place where they have to clean up sexual by-products then they can get a different job. Obviously management needs someone to do that and is willing to pay whatever there salary is for someone to do it.
It's bad enough that liberals are popping lawsuits like Pez every time someone has to do something they don't feel like doing at their job. We don't need conservatives lining up behind them.
Suck it up and get a different job. |
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The janitors didn't sign up to work at a sex club. They don't need to be assaulted with behavior that is illegal in public. (Which these guys are when doing such.) |
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..isn't one of the table legs on which the homosexual movement is founded is the issue of "privacy?"
This doesn't sound too private. They tell us it is none of our business what goes on in the bedroom. |
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There's a solution to working at a place that is demanding new tasks of you - it's called quitting. Whether the job was advertised as working at a sex club or not, they did sign up to work at a place where management allows sex. Do you really want a law that says you have to be told EVERYTHING you will ever be asked to do at your job and if you're asked to do one more thing you get to sue?
The "they don't NEED to be assaulted..." is a silly argument. Management needs someone who is willing to do the job. If these janitors aren't them, they should quit and management can hire someone to do the job. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if sex is illegal in public - this wasn't a public place it was a private business. If management wants to allow sex in locker rooms who are we to tell them they can't? |
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"This doesn't sound too private. They tell us it is none of our business what goes on in the bedroom."
It is none of our business. Neither is what goes on in a private club. Management can cater to homosexual exhibitionists if they want to, and they're willing to pay janitors to clean it up. If the janitors don't want that deal they shouldn't have the right to be financially compensated. Hell, I'm not willing to do it either but no one is paying me. If the janitors' contracts had something about what they were and were not supposed to clean up I could understand it. But there's no law or contract being broken here - there's nothing more than "eww, that's gross." |
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Are they allowed to smoke at this place? |
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I have no idea if they're allowed to smoke, but I'm not the defender of the status quo. I suspect we can all agree that it's ridiculous that the federal government tells owners of clubs and businesses what their smoking policies really are. |
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Aren't you concerned about what your rants against homosexuals imply about you? You know, I just read that in the late 1600's the Swiss punished gays by slicing them up while alive, in a way that would extend over four days. It was a law and punishment administered by Christians, by the way.
I thought this image would give you alot of warm and fuzzy thoughts. |
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Kevin shouldn't be concerned that the Swiss killed homosexuals. That's what the Bible says to do:
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
Dr. Laura never quotes that one, obviously, and neither does Kevin. The reason is either, 1) they never bothered to read the book - they just assumed it said everything they believe, or 2) they know homosexuals don't deserve to die but they don't want to admit that the Bible is morally reprehensible. |
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I don't see where janitors not wanting to be subjected to one man placing his seed into another gets turned into "slicing up homosexuals."
One can argue that homosexual behavior is dangerous and even gross, without condemning those who engage in it to death. |
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It's ridiculous that the federal government tells owners what their policies should be. Agreed. But, unfortunately, they do.
"Furthermore, it doesn't matter if sex is illegal in public - this wasn't a public place it was a private business. If management wants to allow sex in locker rooms who are we to tell them they can't?"
It does matter because we cannot pick and choose which laws we want to obey with impunity. If sexual intercourse is prohibited in that establishment, then the janitors have a case. |
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Is it a gay problem, or just a male pig problem? I've known more then a few straight men (boys, really. Hard to call stupid people men) who did disgusting and immoral things, and sometimes in public. Kevin here does have a real fixation on gay people, though. Most of them couldn't care less about him, however! Unrequited attention is SOOOO tragic, lol!
**Shameless Plug Alert**
My blog is updated with COOL PIX of the new Russian Su-34 fighter bomber just entering service! Click on my name and check it out...:) |
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I wasn't making a clear link between unhappy janitors and gay gym rats - this guy writes so much stuff about his hatred for gays that the link is really between that fear-hatred and practices that were acceptible just a short time ago. Human history never stands still, we are closer to our 17th century morality police than we think. |
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"When the maintenance men complained to management, they were "ridiculed" and subjected to "hostile" treatment, the lawsuit claims. Equinox officials called the charges "frivolous" and deemed unfounded by separate investigation by federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration.
"It's just not an issue here at Equinox," said the chain's Chief Operating Officer Scott Rosen."
Well..things are always "frivolous" when one's "right" to a coveted wickedness is in jeopardy, I suppose..
I also wonder why the NYDaily news website has a giant popup in the right sidebar that won't go away for me to read the story.I had to press "print" article..Odd..
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http://www.reason.com writes:
"Have the courage of your convictions
I'll thank you conservatives to stick to your principles and recognize a free market solution when it hits you in the face."
Ohhhhh Is *that* what they're calling this nowadays? :-O
What a vision
What a lie
What denial..
"If the janitors don't want to work at a place where they have to clean up sexual by-products then they can get a different job."
Don't know whether to laugh or cry here..
It surely isn't truly funny..
This man is joking, of course..
I mean, that line..above..
Was that a line from a recent sitom?
It's certainly bizarre..
It's late..
He MUST be joking.. |
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Jimmy Carter writes:
"..isn't one of the table legs on which the homosexual movement is founded is the issue of "privacy?" This doesn't sound too private. They tell us it is none of our business what goes on in the bedroom."
Yes, sir, and agreed, but we are presuming rational decency and self-control..with these parties..
And, I believe, this was shucked off and out the window..there..long ago.. |
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...the gays dead, because that verse Mr Reason quotes is in the Torah. We Catholics adhere to the New Testament admonition that "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life," among other prescriptions for both human behavior and forgiveness. |
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reply to MuscleHead
"There's a solution to working at a place that is demanding new tasks of you - it's called quitting. Whether the job was advertised as working at a sex club or not, they did sign up to work at a place where management allows sex. Do you really want a law that says you have to be told EVERYTHING you will ever be asked to do at your job and if you're asked to do one more thing you get to sue?"
What a q u e e r , no pun, and round about way to push decent hardworking people out of their jobs to make room for perverse revelry..
I can't-honestly-believe there is another living soul..here on this board..actually advocating such lunatic behaviors and pushing it avidly..
"The "they don't NEED to be assaulted..." is a silly argument. Management needs someone who is willing to do the job. If these janitors aren't them, they should quit and management can hire someone to do the job."
To do what job?
Clean up things they ought not touch?
Created at a job that should not permit such things?
By people who, obviously, have no sense or decency for others, let alone themselves?!
If grown men want to chomp and spew at the mouth all nakid like insane rabid babies..perverse and stinky..why is it the job of these poor janitors to have to see it? Let alone clean it?
Because other s o d o m i t e s say so?
"Furthermore, it doesn't matter if sex is illegal in public - .."
Well there, my friends, is the mindset. above, of one who becons with "reason" dot com..
I see reasons there..
Just..lame excuses..
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my reply should read:
"I see NO reasons there..
Just..lame excuses.."
And fake reasons to boot.. |
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JayJay writes:
"Hey, Kevin Aren't you concerned about what your rants against homosexuals imply about you? You know, I just read that in the late 1600's the Swiss punished gays by slicing them up while alive, in a way that would extend over four days. It was a law and punishment administered by Christians, by the way. I thought this image would give you alot of warm and fuzzy thoughts."
Yes Jay, really rational (Not)..
More gays, and those pushing s o d o m y, throwing reason, and Truth, to the winds, as they lie about Christians, by attaching stories to them that they had nothing to do with, and are not to blame for..
Tactic 498 squared, part b. |
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JayJay writes:
"Musclehead et. al.
I wasn't making a clear link between unhappy janitors and gay gym rats - this guy writes so much stuff about his hatred for gays that the link is really between that fear-hatred and practices that were acceptible just a short time ago. Human history never stands still, we are closer to our 17th century morality police than we think."
I see no "hatred" here by Kevin.
No one here "fears" you or your world of perversions.
Maybe you wish that we would..
Then you could silence that still small voice telling you to stop such advocacy of such practices to your soul.
Or maybe that voice is so small for you you no longer hear it..
But, instead, tragically, and with great folly, mistake normal and natural revulsion at perversion as homosexual acts as "hatred" and "fear"..
And it is normal to fear even being near such acts, let alone those who push such ways of being..
Not so much to fear the people but to fear the Living God enough to do right and not even think of such things..
I understand, those you advocate for have left that concept long ago..
SO much so have they lost-true-reason-they have abandoned themselves to calling those who show them their ways 'hate"ful..
When, indeed, what Mr. KMC is doing is the most loving thing of all..
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1. to Lokietek
You said, "Kevin knows that we are under the new covenant. Your lack of knowledge is undeniable. Homosexual behavior may not deserve death but it still is reprehensible and it still is an abomination. New Testament teaches us to stay away from sexual immorality and it includes homosexuality."
If one is willing to throw out the laws of the old testament you have to do it against Jesus' teachings - Matthew 5: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law." Seriously, I think I'm the only one who read it. Besides, even if you did throw it out Jesus did NOT condemn homosexuality. When you say it includes homosexuality you're making it up.
You're also making it up that homosexuality is "still" an abomination. You have two choices: 1) old testament which commands you to kill them, or 2) new testament which says nothing about it. Feel free to make up a number 3, which "I find it gross and wrong so I'll pretend god does too."
Oh, and just to be silly. My lack of knowledge IS deniable. I deny it.
2. To Mrs. V, particularly in regard to your second post.
You wrote, "What a q u e e r , no pun, and round about way to push decent hardworking people out of their jobs to make room for perverse revelry"
Well, if I may borrow your characterizations of the people involved, the question boils down to: "should the law allow perverse revelry?" If it does, then owners of such clubs need to be able to hire janitors willing to clean it up. I would rather my country not tell private businesses what kind of activities consenting adults can do within their walls. And yes, I would legalize prostitution as well. We can disagree on this point.
You wrote, "I can't-honestly-believe there is another living soul..here on this board..actually advocating such lunatic behaviors and pushing it avidly..
Well, you don't have to believe that because I didn't. I'm not advocating gay sex; I'm defending a business'es ability to set up whatever policies they want for their own store. It's their business, not yours or the courts. If janitors don't have to clean up stuff (or see stuff) that's yucky, we would have to ban strip clubs with private booths, porn stores, fertility clinics, many zoos, and if you can equate semenial fluid with vomit and excrement, most institutes of child care.
I wrote "Management needs someone who is willing to do the job. If these janitors aren't them, they should quit and management can hire someone to do the job."
You wrote, "To do what job? Clean up things they ought not touch? Created at a job that should not permit such things? By people who, obviously, have no sense or decency for others, let alone themselves?!"
Who determines what a job entails? The only reasonable answer to that question is the person who is paying - the boss. If the boss wants to hire an employee to clean up sexual by-products, then that's what they're paying for. This isn't Communism, you don't have to take the job. People don't have to fit your sense of decency in order to do their job. You might object to abortion doctors, or the nurses who have to dispose of the fetus, or the janitors who have to clean the dripping blood from the floor, but people don't need others permission in order to make a contract. At least they shouldn't.
You said, "If grown men want to chomp and spew at the mouth all nakid like insane rabid babies..perverse and stinky..why is it the job of these poor janitors to have to see it? Let alone clean it?"
Because they took the job. That's why. I've already admitted that if their contract had previsions about what they did and did not have to clean, then they have a case. But in the absence of that, what is your argument? If they don't have to do it, no one does. Which means practically that no one can own a club in which men have sex with each other. If that's what you want to ban; fine, argue for that law. But until it passes you can't let employees make up what they want to deal with and don't and sue when they're not happy.
You wrote, "Because other s o d o m i t e s say so?"
No, because it's their job. If they don't like it, do what we all do - quit; you don't go to a court and tell them that you wish your job were something it weren't and can't I still be paid even though I'm not doing it?
I wrote, "Furthermore, it doesn't matter if sex is illegal in public - .."
You wrote, "Well there, my friends, is the mindset. above, of one who becons with "reason" dot com.."
The club wasn't a public place. It was a private club, if I'm not mistaken. So... "it doesn't matter if sex is illegal in public" at least as regards this case. It's illegal to be naked in public, but it doesn't make showering illegal. And it doesn't prevent strip clubs either, or locker rooms in private clubs. I'd recommend being a little slower to mock someone who is being reasonable.
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http://www.reason.com writes: Friday, January, 05, 2007 5:23 PM
"What the Bible says on Homosexuality
Kevin shouldn't be concerned that the Swiss killed homosexuals. That's what the Bible says to do:
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
Dr. Laura never quotes that one, obviously, and neither does Kevin. The reason is either, 1) they never bothered to read the book - they just assumed it said everything they believe, or 2) they know homosexuals don't deserve to die but they don't want to admit that the Bible is morally reprehensible."
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Thanks for pointing this out.
Since I am a Bible believer, you have redoubled my opposition to social acceptance of homosexuality.
You have proved to me how much God hates immorality.
Since the Bible indicates that all sexual immorality is reprehensible, straights can come under the same condemnation. As you may well know, the Bible says "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God."
Praise God that He has given us a way to escape the fate we so richly deserve, by putting our faith in Him.
Anyone who wants to know more about this can visit my blog and read my post called "What in the World is the Romans Road?"
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Gays need to stop all the whining about me paying for AIDS research if they are going to refuse to stop behaving so compulsively.
Women in the United States don't tend to contract HIV unless they are intravenous drug users. Unlike the case in Europe, Asia, and Africa, we still have Puritanical roots, and refuse to allow our heinnies to be used for unnatural acts.
It is therefore annoying that the Left is trying to convince young American women to allow their bodies to be treated in this disgusting manner, because they are desperate to even out the stats.
The Left thinks that if women in America start getting the disease and passing it along to their children, they can get more funding for drugs.
I say that AIDS can disappear in one generation if everyone returns to moral behavior, and especially if they stop having annonomous sex in public places.
If you gays don't want to stop with this compulsive behavior, then I don't want to part with my hard-earned money to fix the mess you made. |
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We have just over 33,000 verses in Scripture. KMC and others like him have managed to pick out the seven that deal with gay people and focus only on those.
NEWS FLASH: We are ALL sinners; gay, straight, bi, tri, quad.... Their sin is no better or worse than mine. |
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Mrs. V, the fact that you think I am gay says everything about the way you think, and the way you see the larger world. It undermines your remaining self-serving, sanctimonious, hate-filled rants.
If you are going to use the bible as a model for your behavior, I suugest you read Deut. and Lev. and promise never again to touch a football, sacrifice large animals in your back yard, and that you support slavery, and child/adult sex.
The fact is that 1st and 2nd century church fathers, the ones who selected the writings to make the bible as we know it, were all against sex period. There are thousands of remaining documents to prove it. They really felt any sex was bad, that women were inferior and "polluting" and that it poisoned the hearts of Christian men. As it became clear to them that it was necessary for procreation, they accepted it "for procreative purposes only", so of course homosexuality never did make it back into the bargain for that reason.
It wasn't just the Swiss church that tortured people to death for being gay - it happened everywhere in Europe that the Christian church was powerful enough to write the social laws, which was just about everywhere. The Swiss were just more creative, the usual punishment was to set gays on fire while they were still alive. The last gay man to be hung was in the mid 1800s, so if you think you are exempt from that mind-set you are just kidding yourself.y part of this last century right up until the 70s, men (always men) could be imprisoned.
The fact is, in most cultures that are not dominated by Christian thought, homosexuals, transsexuals, etc. are not punished but roles are found for them within the society so that they can play an important part. But then, non-Christian cultures are so savage, right?
The most frightening people in the world are those who specialize in Sanctimony, superstition, and ignorance. Most of them, like you are fairly harmless. But, if people like you or some of the others on this thread ever come into any kind of power we are all doomed and we will see history repeat itself in the ugliest of ways. We are only far from the 11th century in minutes - we are still there in our heads.
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Mrs. v More gays, and those pushing s o d o m y, throwing reason, and Truth, to the winds, as they lie about Christians, by attaching stories to them that they had nothing to do with, and are not to blame for..
I have not written anything that cannot be proved with the actual documents from that time and place that still exist.
I think that people who can avoid facts that contradict their biases just by calling the "lies" have found a peculiar, if not simplistic, way to get through life. |
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I generally agree with what you've said, but I should point out that Christianity is certainly not the only religion that condemns homosexuality - certainly Islam and Judiasm do. And there are plenty of cultures that do, for non-religious reasons, condemn homosexuals. It's not clear why exactly, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with religion (when is the last time someone got outraged by the heathens who work on Sunday? - it's punishable by death as well according to the Bible, and actually IS one of the ten commandments unlike fornication or the ban on homosexuality).
My guess is it stems from the fact that many people find homosexuality physically disgusting. That's easy enough to understand - pretty much all sex is disgusting. Sexual arousal appears to deaden the sense of disgust, but if you're not aroused any part of either sex's anatomy is pretty gross. For some reason people often attach a "moral disgust" to acts by others that are physically disgusting. If there were "cockroach eaters" out there I'm sure there would be people calling them deviants and perverts who need to be kept from children. I'm not sure if the theory helps anyone though. |
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You are right that homosexuality is condemned by Islam (which historically follwed Christianity) and yes, Judaism does; however Christianity is Judaism's legacy. The question is, there were many semitic practices that were shared by Christians in the beginning years, many were adopted, like anti-homosexuality, many were absondoned (food taboos, circumcision, etc.) The fact is, homosexuality certainly wasn't non-existent during those times, it was just frowned upon. I suspect that the Jewish proscriptions were based upon the fact that so many of the pre-Judaic religions had institutionalized homosexuality by the frequent practice of gender-bending priests and male prostitutes who worked in the temples where sex had definite religious overtones. In many cultures, homosexualsascetics, particularly those who dressed and looked like women, were thought to have special powers and could work magic. Judaism and Christianity, in their attempt to wipe out these religions, made such practices illegal and identified as immoral.
You are certainly aware of the very common practice of American Indian Cultures, particularly Plains Indians, whose "berdaches" could assume either gender, and those who wanted to be female or male could cross their biological assignments and dress, talk, work, and marry members of the opposite sex, without any kind of disapproval. This practice was ultimately obliterated by missionaries and other Christian settlers.
I could write virtual pages on the history of homosexuality, with footnotes and references but I won't. But trust me, there is no evidence that the "disgust" you are talking about is something we are born with.
By the way, I don't know if you have HBO, but there is a special on this that is still available on On Demand. One of the contemporary examples of cultural institutionalization is shown in Thailand, where there is a very popular community loosely translated as "Lady-boys". They are made up of both homosexuals and gender re-assignments, are frequented by hundreds of normal people (they perform shows, much like gay bars here) , are protected by the law, and are accepted as part of the social fabric.
When you say that Homosexuality has always been discouraged because it is "disgusting" you are saying that torturing a gay person by cutting him into pieces is less disgusting than homosexuality itself. |
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No, I realize you are not saying that - I'm saying, how do you explain a society that is so "disgusted" by homosexulaity but not disgusted by torture? |
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JoJo writes:
"Mrs. V, Rose, etc. Mrs. V, the fact that you think I am gay says everything about the way you think, and the way you see the larger world. It undermines your remaining self-serving, sanctimonious, hate-filled rants."
Don't talk to me as some *expert* on *me* when I have no idxea who I am talking to and see nothing here that I wrote which is expressedly a reply to *you*, "JoJo"..
As for your comments..The same dishonest boring rhetoric as always comes on here..
People who speak about individuals and use words like "selfish" and the like, as you have towards me, when they don't know them, are ones I tend to ignore at this point.
Now selfish actions, like these homosexual patrons, well that's quite another story..
Once more "JoJo", nothing here I have written has addressed *you* that I see or recall here..
You might want to track back and think about actually WHO was speaking to you, before you go into the long and fruitless pasttime of attempting to "look" into their "soul".. |
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I want to make sure we keep two threads separate in our discussion.
1. The moral question of what rights homosexuals should have, on which I believe we (Jayjay and I) agree.
- and -
2. The scientific question of what causes people to treat homosexuals poorly and how widespread that phenonmena is.
If we keep those separate I think we can avoid a lot of potential useless arguments.
As for the 2nd question, I did actually watch that HBO special and I seem to recall (though I forget which eastern culture it was) that the man getting the sex change operation was sad that so many opportunities would be denied to him because of his switch. Regardless of that incident though, the world is full of cultures derived from religions other than Islam, Judaism and Christianity that have laws outlawing homosexual behavior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_laws_of_the_world
Remember when you look at that list that the US is about as liberal as they come. We don't outlaw homosexuality (any more) and we have laws protecting them from discrimination.
For a visual depiction of sodomy laws alone see:
http://www.sodomylaws.org/
Africa is thoroughly anti-gay and so are a lot of parts of southeast Asia. Europe is about as tolerant as it gets, and even there one finds a great deal of homophobia. Just 2 generations ago Hitler carried out the Bible's punishment for homosexuality though no one seems to know.
The disgust argument isn't something I'm certain of, but it deserves an honest appraisal. Disgust appears to be a mechanism for avoiding pathogens. The things people find disgusting are almost all high in pathogens (e.g. various body excrements, rotting food, etc.) All forms of sex involve components that outside the sexual context are disgusting. Knowing that two strangers had sex in your bed is disgusting to most people, for example. This disgust is suppressed by sexual arousal (so watching two attractive people having sex in your bed would be less disgusting than 2 unattractive people). To a heterosexual - homosexual sex is both 1) involving of disgusting elements such as sweaty human genitals, the anal cavity, etc., and 2) not sexually arousing so that the disgust is not suppressed.
Honestly, I find the sight of homosexual sex disgusting, and I wouldn't want two gay men to have sex in my bed. I also find the thought of two 80 year olds having sex a bit disgusting; but in neither case do I think I should treat people differently because of it. As long as they're not having sex in my bed I'm fine with it.
Why some people take something disgusting and decide that it must be immoral is the question that remains to be answered. |
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"Mrs. v says: "More gays, and those pushing s o d o m y, throwing reason, and Truth, to the winds, as they lie about Christians, by attaching stories to them that they had nothing to do with, and are not to blame for.."
JayJay writes:
"I have not written anything that cannot be proved with the actual documents from that time and place that still exist."
Big deal. One can take any isolated "true" story, and blow it way up out of proportion, as you have..drag it out from the ancient dusty bins of history..as you have..and throw it down into an arguement, at the feet of parties who have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the story, piece of history or accompanying implication/accusations..
This is all you do..
So JayJay, with the lumps of false accusations, dumping them at the feet of innocent Christians who just happen to disagree with you, respectfully, get real..
"I think that people who can avoid facts that contradict their biases just by calling the "lies" have found a peculiar, if not simplistic, way to get through life."
What "facts"? lol
The *fact* that YOU dregged up some 16th century piece of history and used it to lump, mislabel, and lambaste every Christian here is also a fact that seems lost on you.
Don't talk to me about "get(ting)" "through life" when your mission-here seems to be advocating and promoting an existence where most following it die tragically before their 40th birthday..
Don't talk to me about "facts" when the FACT IS most who carry and pass off diseases like HIV Aids happen to, still, very much, be participating gays..
Don't talk to me about "facts", when the Facts are that the Bible is not only authentic and infallible on all things, and these things, it is bankable. So you sow what you reap..
Meaning that all you, and some others here, making long windied diatribes about why you think public and/or perverse sex is ok, will do nothing to promote anything but illness, and young deaths, and lawlessness amongst people, homosexuals and every other being.
The fact remains that -some- men in places of power have allowed this to go on for reasons, and these are the others who will be held responsible in these things.
The fact is that people, in order for society to flourish, and follow God's laws in nature, must be held accountable for bad, or offensive (truly offensive, not you calling me a subjective lie like "hate monger"), dangerous behavior.
This is why God made laws..
This is why lawmakers were made..
You, and others, levying silly, untrue personal judgments about KMC, me or anyone else here, speak nothing of Truth, or an ability to clearly see or argue points, or make fair or rational distinctions about discussions, let alone individual people.
The fact of my cousin passing away before his time is one I often bring up at these forums, because I loved him, and his passing was a reality, and it is true.
I know in my heart that if things were different, and those who pushed lies about men not having an ability to be delivered were, in part, not so vocal with these lies about "life"styles, my dear late loved one might be here today.
Wanna talk history?
Today's "fashionable chic" is tommorrow's
"Gosh-what-was-wrong-with-me,-Was-I-insane,-What was-I-thinking-and-What-did-I-urge-them-to-do!?"
You think about those facts, and realities, the next time you, and others here, imagine you are a fine and "open-minded" individual by pushing or extoling the (imagined) *virtues* of a life that is most foten, eventually, tragically frittered away..
People live through purchasing bad products..
But those who buy lies and love to live with them, well, they are the merchants of death..
You want to levy blame?
Now you do?
Point to you..
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Just a post it..
I inadvertently, when quoting "reason dot com" here posted his website on my replies.
He stuck that there to advertise his website.
From all I have seen him say here I wouldnt touch that site with a 10 foot pole.
In fact, I would say, RUN dont ealk away from his website and, furthermore..
"Abandon Hope ALl Yee Who Enter Here"..
Honestly..
And sorry mr miss "reason", but your placing your ad in that way so as to make others, also, inadvertantly, plug your website doesnt seem very honest, fair or kosher anyway..
So why are folks to believe what you have to say?
I eman, other than all the mounds of fallacious stuff youve posted here?
Ok, just checking.. |
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You wrote, "Don't talk to me about "facts", when the Facts are that the Bible is not only authentic and infallible on all things, and these things, it is bankable."
I think we're done here.
By the way, http://www.reason.com isn't my website. It's a libertarian magazine available free online. I don't own stock in it (I don't even know if they sell stock). It's my favorite website because I get to have intelligent conservative economic thought without the silly religious arguments that for some reason seem to go together. |
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Homosexuality is the final immorality before the fall of a civilization. Proof is in the pudding: Babylon, Rome, etc. |
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A sample size of two non-randomly selected and with numerous confounds is not proof. Iraq just fell and they still killed homosexuals if memory serves. Japan's dynasties fell in the 1940s and they didn't tolerate homosexuality. Hitler killed homosexuals but the Nazi culture was destroyed. Europe is tolerating homosexuals more than the US and -despite being kind of whimpy- they show no signs of their civilization "falling." Their economy is gaining on us. The Ottoman empire fell hard and they killed homosexuals. In fact the remnants of the once mighty Islamic world are still killing homosexuals and still falling further. In the whole middle eastern area Israel is the only one increasing education, economy and technology and they're the most tolerant of homosexuality.
Please stop spreading that myth, Douglas. I hear it all the time. |
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"Iraq just fell and they still killed homosexuals if memory serves. Japan's dynasties fell in the 1940s and they didn't tolerate homosexuality. Hitler killed homosexuals but the Nazi culture was destroyed."
Flawed logic. Not all dynasties that have fallen tolerated homosexuality. And most that "tolerated" it became saturated in it, and thus, destroyed..
That does not mean that the ones that corrupted, from within, the few of many, that Douglas Gibbs mentioned, did not indeed fall apart due to perversion at the core and its leaders corrupt bent.
"Europe is tolerating homosexuals more than the US and -despite being kind of whimpy- they show no signs of their civilization "falling." Their economy is gaining on us."
What one party sees as "no signs" can be replete with very evident signs to others.
Many very materially blessed nations, swept away by indulging in the secular and material, ended in material luxury, but were socially and spiritually de-based, corrupt and spent.
You then leap to talk about "killing" homosexuals. Yet no one has made mention of such an idea here (Except those advocating gay sex..)
You said it yourself "reasons":
"increasing education, economy and technology and they're the most tolerant of homosexuality"
Are the last gasps of what a dying nation looks like that is blessed by the profit of consumerism you've advocated and outlined here, but bankrupt in Godliness, virtue, the mind of Christ, and holy living and restraint..
Time and again those societies that looked "quite well" on the outside, but were inwardly dying, did so, bit by bit, by cutting out God and glorifying in the self, and the secular profane.
Even an honest secularist can admit that one..
Where do you think such obvious stereotypes in Biblical epics come from? The gawdy preening gay-ish Roman leaders, many allusions of these things in old Hollywood, for good reason.
But, of course, men's sin will allow them to close their eyes and imagine all is fine, while they are sinking deep into the mire.
Or as God's Word says, man will love his sin, and this usually accompanies a blindness to it, and a hard heart..
Here is an interesting link discussing such a spiritual dilemma and need.
It's called "The Hardened Heart"
http://www.surfinthespirit.com/advice/hardened-heart.shtml
Suprised you're still there "reason", since you claimed you were going..
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ps
Of course you're more than welcome to comment here, as anyone else is..
But I should add, it was my understanding that the inner workings of Nazism were indeed quite fascinated with the occult, homosexuality, and all types of sexual expression..outside of God's design..peadophilia, etc.
Indeed they were merely sporting a sort of German Communism, with all the surface talk and paraphenalia..
Anyone with spiritual eyes can see the truth behind a swastika..
Just a counterfeit..as a broken cross pointing in confused and maniacal directions..
All twisting and perverting of the Cross by man, in ditections He never intended, will, ultimately, create proud and confused directions poiting at the same things, but going to confused and lonely, tragic places.. |
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