Thursday, October 18, 2007
Posted by:
Kevin McCullough
at
9:04 AM
Night before last Osteen continued his prime time tour promoting his new book. My cell phone rang at 1am from a friend who was rather incensed with the soundbyte that come at the very end of this segment on Larry King LIVE. Larry asks Joel the question if Mitt's Mormonism would keep him from voting for him. Osteen steered fine initially saying, that what he had read demonstrated that he was a man of character. But then Osteen veered into the unforgiveable - being a theological dufus:
"I've heard him (Mitt Romney) say that he believes in Jesus as his Savior, just like I do... I hadn't studied it deeply and maybe people don't agree with me..."
My friend who dialed me after I was in a deep sleep, called me the next day asking if I had seen it. He also wanted to know intensely if what Osteen said was in fact an endorsement of Mormonism.
On the technical side of things - the answer is yes. If Joel Osteen believes that he and Mitt worship the same "Jesus" then Osteen is a heretic and should never preach again at least certainly not in evangelical churches.
More LIKELY what happened was that he was careless. (He even fesses up to it by saying he hadn't "studied it carefully.")
Which in a very small snapshot demonstrates Osteen's problem start to finish. He's a nice guy, he gives great "power of positive thinking" pep talks. But for Heaven's sake - some one please recognize that he is either willfully negligent or completely incapable of understanding the his own theological beliefs - and as such should not be considered a Pastor in any sense of the word.
Nice guy, seems like a very good man - but a complete theological dufus.
Kevin,
I have a problem with Joel Osteen. He does not have a cross anywhere in the sanctuary of his church because he says it was better to remove any and all stumbling blocks from the building so that the unsaved would be more comfortable coming to the services.
Hmmm..this scripture verse comes to mind:
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Co 1:18)
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I happen to like his message to the common folks.
I only catch him occasionally but he does good. A little aside, my neighbor's son found his mothers house in disrepair; bad roof and porch. Mom would not move.He and friends were to give her a new roof, the porch was so bad it had to be removed. City inspector came by, was pissed no permit, since the porch was removed it needed a permit. Stopped it all, no roof. John Osteen was still alive. Gave a tent to cover the house. The permit took three months or more but she was safe and dry and I and the crappy inspector got to see Mr. Olsteen's smiling face. Was a beautiful way to start the day. |
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MY JESUS, MY JESUS, MY JESUS! You can't have him because He's MINE!
Guys, after a while, it just starts to sound childish.
Also, Kevin, i honestly believe that most 20-year-old Mormon missionaries know more about the Bible, and witness more powerfully about their Savior, Jesus Christ, than you ever will.
When you face the judement bar, go ahead and ask Jesus, our Advocate with the Father, if his saving power frees the Mormon faithful from sin, like they think it will. His opinion is what really matters. |
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I don't mean to come across as too harsh, but when you say that Joel has "veered into the unforgiveable" by NOT making a judgement as to the relationship Romney has with Christ - well, that attitude seems un-Christlike to me.
Here's the thing. I think you are probably a very good guy. I think you will end up in Heaven. Mormons think that way; that everyone who sincerely seeks to know the truth will find it over time as it is presented to them. And if the LDS church is true, then eventually people will naturally accept it as they look at it and learn about it with an open heart and mind, because they seek and accept the truth. And this may happen during mortality or after death before they are judged because God is more than fair to all his children.
However, the impression that Mormons get all the time is that most other people who believe in Christ think that Mormon doctrine is so evil that Mormons will definitely NOT be accepted by Christ nor go to heaven; and people who seem even a little tolerant of the LDS or their beliefs in that they withhold an immediate condemnation, are themselves judged as doing something near unforgiveable.
I thought Christ had power to forgive all things. I also thought that most Christians believe that once a person has truly accepted the Savior that they are His and will surely be forgiven all future indiscretions. Does that not hold true for Joel Osteen too?
Best Regards,
Rob |
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My criticism of Osteen is FROM one evangelical to another ON THE ISSUE of heresy in our faith, from our doctrinal viewpoint.
It is not in any way an attempt to validate or invalidate Mormon thought on the issue.
It is the Christian worldview that sees Christianity as something separate from Mormonism. It is the Mormon worldview that sees them as the same.
That's what you believe FINE. But as an Evangelical I have the right to point out poor doctrine with someone who believes "the same things" as I. |
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Furthermore, as to Mormons witnessing about Jesus, they are not witnessing about the same Jesus as the Bible speaks of:
Interesting Facts About Mormonism:
I. The Existence of Jesus
According to Mormon theology, Jesus had a beginning. Jesus was a created being.
According to the Bible, Jesus did not have a beginning. Jesus is the Eternal God.
II. How was Jesus born?
According to Mormon theology, Jesus is the literal son of god and his goddess wife. He was born through physical sexual relations with Mary. Brigham Young taught that Jesus was not born with any involvement of the Holy Spirit.
According to the Bible, Jesus is not the literal son of god and his goddess wife. He was not born through sexual relations. Mary was a virgin was Jesus was born. There is no such thing as a goddess wife. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20).
III. The Godhead
In Mormon theology, in the "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 370", Joseph Smith taught that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit exist as 3 gods. The Trinity is three separate gods.
According to the Bible, Jesus is not one of 3 gods in the godhead. The Trinity is 3 persons in one God. Jesus is God. There is only 1 God, but many false gods.
Iv. Plan of Salvation
According to Mormon theology, Jesus offered a plan of salvation in addition to the one offered by Lucifer. Also, there is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, Doctrines of Salvation.
According to the Bible, Jesus is the only plan for salvation. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. This is no salvation in any other name
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...he hasn't studied it "deeply," whatever that means. His answer, however, shows that he is either totally ignorant of the Bible, or he is totally ignorant of Mormonism, or both. Either way, he has no business being a pastor. His "ministry" truly is fraught with many a doctrinal issue, but then, he purposely eschews doctrine in the first place. No, Kevin, you are not out of place to question this statement as you did. |
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I suspect that Jesus is a lot more forgiving and tolerant than most people suspect. At the same time, I think he will be harsher and more terrifying to some than they can imagine.
It was not sinners for whom Jesus reserved his harshest criticism, but hypocrits.
As the Lord told Samuel, "...the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart." (1 Sam. 16:7)
It seems to me that Joel Osteen has a pretty good heart. |
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The issue is Mr. Osteen represents a large congregation, and since he represents a group of
Christanity, he should be minimally aware of other beliefs. Yes Mr. Joel Osteen has a pretty good heart and a very nice smile, but that will not make you a capable pastor. Knowing, how fast his ministry is growing, we should be expecting more knowledge in the area, he is in.
Therefore, Kevin, you are right, he should have just been very honest and said; this is one subject, I am not familiar about, but Mr. Romeny is a great family man, with great integritty, very successful. Voting is personal to me, by the way Mr.King, Larry, will you be voting for a Christian? Is Hillary your favorit? |
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This isn't the first time you have painted with such a broad brush to denounce Mormons as non-Christian, and yes, I've read many posts by you about it.
Just one question for my own curiosity. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? |
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