Thursday, December 13, 2007
Posted by:
Kevin McCullough
at
12:05 AM
"...so what do you want?"
(The following critical thinking is not a reflection upon the candidacy of Mitt Romney, whom at present this blogger still very much likes as a person and candidate...)
So when Hugh Hewitt says their should be no religious litmus tests - does he only apply that to the rather mild criticisms and questions the majority of Evangelical Christians might have regarding Mormon theology - which does in essence argue that Lucifer and Jesus were "brothers?"
Evidently so... because no candidate has endured greater scrutiny in this election as to what his faith means than Huckabee - and now the hypocritical position of Romney's most rabid supporter - is applying a religiously bigoted litmus test against Huckabee for NOT releasing sermons...(or at least applauding those doing the sniffing...)
Really?
You can sit there with straight face and defend Romney's speech on the freedom of faith practice one week ago, and tonight argue that Huckabee must turn over sermons, and notes, and bible studies?
Do you hear yourself?
Are you willing to allow those of us who have questions about Mormon belief - insist upon letting us examine one prominent Mormon candidate's Holy Undergarments?
I'm not Huckabee fan, but I don't think he ought to have to turn over his sermons, work, or bible studies. I see that as professional work product, not public documents.
I think one of the points of Hugh's book, a Mormon in the Whitehouse, was that if Evangelicals try to make Mormonism an issue, it will just bite them in the backside b/c it will open the door for criticism of their faith (i.e. a litmus test).
I don't like any of this stuff. Huckabee made a HUGE, enormous miscalculation and error. He needs to keep backtracking (as he's doing) b/c he's making life permanently harder for religious candidates everywhere.
Huck should never have positioned himself as "Christian Leader" . . . b/c then, really, it opens the door for people to say, "Oh really, then let us see how you led people as a Christian . . . let us see your work product."
Mitt has been an exemplar on this issue and did his best to talk people off the edge. From the beginning he's understood the danger of this stuff.
Everyone should take his advice and move on to the issues and discussions about values.
Huck should not have to release anything, and he needs to start campaigning on issues and values, not on his religious affiliations and credentials (so that these silly demands can cease). |
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You make a great point. Looks like a double standard is going on |
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There still IS a big difference between what a religious person wears and what a Pastor preaches publicly from the pulpit.
I don't have a problem with people wondering what Pastor Huck might have preached, but he should not be required to release the sermons.
The remark about the undergarments was, I believe, unnecessary and not relevant. |
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Huck did apologize for his remarks to Mitt, meaning that there was something that needed apologizing for.
Huck said Mitt was gracious.
Mitt has handled this whole thing like a gentleman. Huck has done him a great disservice, but I thought his responses have been measured and fair.
Everyone needs to be careful not to project onto Evangelicals the behavior of Mr. Huckabee. We all make serious and egregious errors from time to time. |
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Stop and slowly step back from the dark side!
Take a deep breath!
I'm LDS, and I wear temple garments - proudly! They remind me of committments I have made to serve God and my fellow man, and to live a pure and righteous life. Nothing magical or mysterious about them - but they are sacred to me, and I would rather die than defile them. I have never understood the derision I get about them from people who claim to be Christians.
Yes, we LDS believe Christ and Lucifer were brothers. I am perfectly comfortable with that concept, which is amply supported by the Bible. They are also my brothers, and your brothers, and every other child of God's brothers. One, Christ, lived perfectly and inherited all His Father has. He stands as Savior and Redeemer of all mankind. The other fell mightily, as far as anyone can fall, and fights his Father and Brother by trying to drag his other brothers and sisters down to a level as dark and miserable as he. I have never understood why people who claim to be Christians find this concept so objectionable.
Finally, I AM a Christian, as is every faithful LDS. We believe in Jesus Christ, we DO worship Him and honor him as our Redeemer, we bear His holy name and do all we can to be His disciples. We may believe we have additional light and knowledge into His nature and desires for us, which we share freely with the world, but we would NEVER say you are not Christians if you believe in Christ. That is why we get so bent out of shape when people who claim to be Christians arrogantly proclaim we LDS are not. We ARE, and will defend our faith in Jesus Christ to our last breath - and beyond.
The author of discord is Satan, and he is trying mightily to divide those who should be standing shoulder to shoulder in the fight against him. |
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and I was thinking the same thing - why should Huckabee turn over the speeches? He shouldn't, but I would be very intersted to know if he has ever preached anti-Mormon stuff. I mean, he was the KEYNOTE SPEAKER at a conference designed to poke a sharp stick in the eyes of Mormons in SLC, with 12,000 anti-Mormon booklets handed out. (Can anyone imagine LDS church leaders doing anything like that? Never happen in a million years.)
So, it's pretty fishy in light of the way he is running as the "Christian candidate" and with the anti-Mormon comments he's made so far. He's obviously lying when he told reporters he really doesn't know much about Mormons. Can anyone say "the willing suspension of disbelief"?
Huckabee is toast and it's a good thing. We don't need a pastor-in-chief. |
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"Memo to Anti-Mormon Religious Bigots dressed up as Huckabee supporters..."
Have been on Town Hall? Have you seen the push polling? Most Huck supporters say Romney isnt fit for leading a country because they figure his beliefs are too strange, while ignoring the fact that Huckabee claims he is the Lord's candidate and doesn't know a thing about American policies.
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Shhh... shhh...there there Kevin, look the other way as TH bashes Mormons and distorts our faith...shhh....there...there.. Kevin.
I dont know what Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee's records are in heaven, but I do know that Huckabee's record as Governor and his knowledge of American Policy stinks.
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I am a Mormon.
I will vote for the Republican nominee. Doesn't matter who he is.
My personal preference in order:
1. Romney
2. Huckabee
3. Thompson
4. Hunter
5. McCain
6. Guliani
And any of them and any of the rest of the pack are so superior to the Dems that any one who would jeopardize the White House over arguments about who is holier will be guilty of the greater sin.
Will you all make the same promise?
Kevin, By the way, just ditch the "Big Love" picture and the remarks aimed at things Mormons hold Sacred. It doesn't contribute to the discussion. Otherwise you make a great deal of sense. |
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Where in the blog post does he argue that Huckabee should release the sermons? Where does he apply the religious test? All I read was that he reported what was in Mother Jones. Chill out. |
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Like other Christians, we believe Jesus is the divine Son of God. Satan is a fallen angel.
As the Apostle Paul wrote, God is the Father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are His spirit children. Christ, however, was the only begotten in the flesh, and we worship Him as the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.
Please do not jump to the conclusion that Mormon's are Arians. If you understand the complete set of interlocking doctrines concerning this issue you will understand that Mormons do not fit into any of the Arian branches of early church history in the first thru the fourth centuries.
The Arians were the primary alternative to the Trinitarians. Even in parts of the 4th century Arianism was the official doctrine of the Christian Church depending on who was Emperor.
St. Athanasius was out of power until about 384 due to Arian leaning Emepeors. I may be off a few years. |
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On Huck's sermons. They would not be an issue if Huck had not used religion as his primary marketing tactic.
The key issue for Huck is how involved was he in anti Mormon activity?
As head of the AR SBC he has to be very familar with the God Makers, Ankerberg and numerous anti Mormon Books.
He claims not to know much about the Mormon Faith and that may be true if he discounts the anti Mormon sources and has not compared their misinformation with Mormon sources.
Huck at least called Mormons a religion instead of a cult. However, it would be nice to know if that is political expediency or his long time position.
There are a few Evangelical Ministers who have not been involved in anti Mormon activity in the past. Some were not very involved and some were very heavily involved. I think that this is an important issue for Huck and how he handles it is also important.
Huck needs to be honest about this. We all understand the use of PR and Huck is good at it, but he can appear to be less than honest if he parses like Bill Clinton.
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When you join a Catholic order (correct me if I am wrong) you make additional vows or covenants and you wear vestments or special Garments.
Ministers when they are ordained get special robes signifying their "priesthood". Academics get special robes upon graduation (all education used to be thru religious orders or schools).
Much of this can be traced back to the ordination of Aaron and his sons into the Aaronic Priesthood in the Old Testament.
Without going into any Mormon Temple rites, the situation is similar to joining a Catholic order in many regards.
Both Mormon men and women enter into a special order of the Priesthood and wear special garments as a result. The garments are reminders of the covenants that are made upon entering into the order. Not all Mormons enter into these orders and only those who do, wear garments.
Would you ridicule the vestments of Nuns and Priests or the Robes of your Minister? I know that you do not understand but that is what you are doing when you ridicule the garments or "vestments" of Mormons. The garments are reminders of the covenants that are made upon entering into the order.
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i am a christian, conservative, white, heterosexual male, who has been married for over thirty years to the same woman, and father of three. so i am not in an approved minority group. i suppose that i am also one of the often maligned evangelicals. a horror, southern baptist. at this time i will not support mitt romney because in part of his mormon beliefs. i can not know his standing with God. i do not think that the mormon church is quite right with the biblical word. but at least as far as i know they do accept Jesus as saviour. i respect that no one has questioned Romney's character or his commitment to the church of his faith. on that point i must give character points to Romney. no vote yet, right now i am leaning towards another candidate. |
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Our ancestors elected four Unitarian Presidents - the two Adams, Fillmore, and Taft. Why were they any different than a Mormon?
What next, questions to candidates over Calvinism vs Arminism? |
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because - Hugh and Romney have made his religion an issue. Nobody cares about Harry Reid being mormon, infact it is not mentioned. But Romney has made it clear that he will remain true to the faith of his fathers but that we should not take that fact into consideration when we vote for him. This makes him a dishonest man not worthy of the whitehouse - at least he ought to be proud enough to say how his mormon beliefs will influence policy - then voters will at least consider him to be a man of conviction. Inconsistency on major issues frequently will cost Romney his candidacy because the candidate becomes too unpredictable - 36% maximum for him in a general election! |
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The Huckster was the keynote speaker at an anti-Mormon conference in Salt Lake City. And he knows nothing about Mormons? And the "Christian Leader" doesn't want to release his sermons?
The moniker "Huckster" is well-earned. |
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Few evangelicals are aware of Hugh Hewitt's plan for them. Despite HH's ongoing pseudo-bigotry rant, he's set to deliver his 'knock-out' punch in the form of a movie/DVD.
In January 2008, the public will be hit by a multiculturalist media blitz designed to blunt evangelical Christian participation by dominating the dialogue regarding the “proper” role of religion in the public square...multiculturally defined of course. Great efforts are being made to alter the original intent of the Founder’s Article VI of the US Constitution: “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
New Media heavy-weight Hugh Hewitt, executive producer for the above movie, has it wrong. Article VI of the Constitution addresses what government may not require (a religious test) on potential office holders. It was NEVER the Founders' intent to proscribe religion as a basis for the electorate’s evaluation of political candidates. This DVD is a ploy to neutralize the political strength of evangelical Christians. |
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I find Mormon theology to be way out there and unbiblical. However, I find humanist philosophy / theology to be far worse.
To paraphrase Martin Luther, "it is better to be governed by a wise Turk than a stupid Christian".
I find Romney's positions on most issues far superior to Huckabees. How soon Evangelicals have forgotten the moronic Jimmy Carter. |
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